country centralism

[DanDesade]

does anyone else think that we are gradually progressing back to country centralism.

In my own home (Aus) we are continually withdrawing funding for not only humanitarian aid but also refugee concern.

yet at the same time we are so worried about our trade deficits with other countries.

yet we sit back and simply accept what are seemingly the defiance of war time rules of engagement and instead hope.

[scozy]

I feel like you may be construing based on few examples. We don't hear much about what's going on in Oz around here, but I heard enough about the way your country has dealt with asylum seekers to think "Wow, here is a country that really doesn't want to be part of the world." The USA with Trump send a similar vibe.

But other countries still do things differently. To talk about the one I am most familiar with—in Canada, we've elected a new government 18 months ago that has, among other things, increased humanitarian spending, upped our participation in international instances, and made lots of efforts to welcome more refugees, going as far as sending numerous consular workers in refugee camps in countries neighbouring Syria to process people referred to us by the UNHCR faster and get them in Canada as quickly as possible.

So while your own country and the world's admittedly "most important" country seem to be moving in the direction of increased isolationism, I don't think that's reflective of a universal movement. I'm pretty sure that for each country you could name moving towards that direction, someone better informed than myself could point you one country moving in the other direction. Don't lose hope. Just move to Canada.

Edit: Oxfam's run an interesting "fair share" analysis for funding and resettling effort wrt the syrian refugee crisis specifically. While the resettling effort statistics are a bit depressing, one can see there are a few countries making their share, surprisingly including Oz!

[DanDesade]

Originally Posted by scozy

in entirety

I hope you understand this...

I know everything you just said for the most part.

though you may not know it, in years past Canada and Australia were compared.

mostly because of economy but also because of the ingeniousness people.

today, tbh, in the Australian media, Canada is treated as a cousin of the US. A 2nd state. little more than a offshoot of the prodigy of the UK all those years ago.

Australia is treated as a perennial colony behest of US policy.

for the educated. we already this and that time has passed.

[bitermer]

It has to do with the backlash against globalisation, one of the side effects of which have been increased migration. In Europe especially, previously homogeneous societies are experiencing this for the first time and the populists have used this situation to gain political capital.

On top of that, the traditional "left" parties in much of the world are having a collective crisis of confidence, soul searching etc. in relation to neoliberalism, which in its present form is hurting a lot of their ex-voter base (manufacturing, unionized workers). Recessions additionally historically have the effect of driving voters to political extremes, and while most of the world has recovered from the financial crisis we are still dealing with its political fallout.

tldr: In our increasingly complex, globalised society it's easier and more satisfying to scapegoat, point the finger at the foreigner and shout "fuck off, we're full" than engage in analytical, constructive political discourse.

[DanDesade]

Originally Posted by bitermer

It has to do with the backlash against globalisation, one of the side effects of which have been increased migration. In Europe especially, previously homogeneous societies are experiencing this for the first time and the populists have used this situation to gain political capital.

On top of that, the traditional "left" parties in much of the world are having a collective crisis of confidence, soul searching etc. in relation to neoliberalism, which in its present form is hurting a lot of their ex-voter base (manufacturing, unionized workers). Recessions additionally historically have the effect of driving voters to political extremes, and while most of the world has recovered from the financial crisis we are still dealing with its political fallout.

tldr: In our increasingly complex, globalised society it's easier and more satisfying to scapegoat, point the finger at the foreigner and shout "fuck off, we're full" than engage in analytical, constructive political discourse.

i hope you understand you just basically summarized history.

my concern is now?

what can we do now???

we're no longer bound by boundaries. we now have international borderlines.

We now have the military force to enforce these boundaries.

We effectively have the ability to have a standoff.

while every other nation who isn't as technologically or geopolitically connected will have to suffer.

geopolitics is difficult.

we already went through this when we thought about the centre of asia.

[bitermer]

I believe the solution lies therein, to look back and understand why thing are the way they are and what can be done. It's hard to say what can and should be done individually and collectively. Personally when I was in Melbourne I volunteered a few times for the ASRC but politically one can't help but feel disenfranchised given the way the system works.

[DanDesade]

Originally Posted by bitermer

...the solution lies therein...

really, how "disenfranchised" can we be when:

Saudi Arabia still allows:

Flogging, Caning, Dismemberment, Blinding, Beheading, Stoning and Crucifixion as normal legal practice.

I'm not Saudi, I'm someone.

p.s. apologies bitermer. i used your point for context.

[tom the pit leader]

Originally Posted by bitermer

It has to do with the backlash against globalisation, one of the side effects of which have been increased migration. In Europe especially, previously homogeneous societies are experiencing this for the first time and the populists have used this situation to gain political capital.

On top of that, the traditional "left" parties in much of the world are having a collective crisis of confidence, soul searching etc. in relation to neoliberalism, which in its present form is hurting a lot of their ex-voter base (manufacturing, unionized workers). Recessions additionally historically have the effect of driving voters to political extremes, and while most of the world has recovered from the financial crisis we are still dealing with its political fallout.

tldr: In our increasingly complex, globalised society it's easier and more satisfying to scapegoat, point the finger at the foreigner and shout "fuck off, we're full" than engage in analytical, constructive political discourse.

The globalists called me monster. The nationalists called me brother. What did you think was going to happen?

[President Gregory]

Originally Posted by bitermer

It has to do with the backlash against globalisation, one of the side effects of which have been increased migration. In Europe especially, previously homogeneous societies are experiencing this for the first time and the populists have used this situation to gain political capital.

On top of that, the traditional "left" parties in much of the world are having a collective crisis of confidence, soul searching etc. in relation to neoliberalism, which in its present form is hurting a lot of their ex-voter base (manufacturing, unionized workers). Recessions additionally historically have the effect of driving voters to political extremes, and while most of the world has recovered from the financial crisis we are still dealing with its political fallout.

tldr: In our increasingly complex, globalised society it's easier and more satisfying to scapegoat, point the finger at the foreigner and shout "fuck off, we're full" than engage in analytical, constructive political discourse.

Exactly.

Also there needs to be a realization that outsourcing and automation is here to stay and that alternatives will have to be devised to employ workers from those sectors. Or come up with something like universal basic income or at very least higher minimum wages and better social services.

[bitermer]

Originally Posted by DanDesade

really, how "disenfranchised" can we be when:

Saudi Arabia still allows:

Flogging, Caning, Dismemberment, Blinding, Beheading, Stoning and Crucifixion as normal legal practice.

I'm not Saudi, I'm someone.

p.s. apologies bitermer. i used your point for context.

It's all relative of course. Just speaking personally of course because I can't vote. And when 49% of the vote doesnt mean anything, those 49% are essentially disenfranchised