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Old 07-15-2020, 02:51 AM   #1
happy5214 
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Default Protests for social justice

What do you guys think about the recent protests resulting from the death of George Floyd? It seems the violent part is over, and now is the time for action. Will things actually change? What reforms, if any, would you suggest? Discuss here.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

That's the question. Will there be any reforms? What the George Floyd incident did was separate Americans more from what I see.

If you're someone who would vote Republican, you're even more likely to support police now, and Democrats the opposite.


For the Americans, how serious are peoples stories that approaching an officer can be a death-wish and that they're always on edge?

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Old 07-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

I believe that the incident is important to show the western society that things like racism (some reactions to the incident more than the incident itself) and police violence are problems that are still very present in this side of the world, including in the so-called "biggest democracy" in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xineoph View Post
That's the question. Will there be any reforms? What the George Floyd incident did was separate Americans more from what I see.

If you're someone who would vote Republican, you're even more likely to support police now, and Democrats the opposite.


For the Americans, how serious are peoples stories that approaching an officer can be a death-wish and that they're always on edge?
I would like to answer your position using something that I already posted in the channel "#member-politics".

It probably won't make much sense because, now, it will be out of context, because those messages were answers to other conversations about that topic.

--- Beginning ---
Living in a country (Brazil) where "institutional racism" is a thing, I'd like to clarify some things.

Firstly, the situation in my country:
1. In Brazil, in 2018, 55,8% of the population considered themselves black or "pardo" (mixed race). It was the first time more than 50% of the population classified themselves that way. Previously, it was very common for a substantial number of "pardos" to call themselves white, even if they weren't "white".
2. Here, 75,2% of those who have the 10% lowest incomes in the country are black or pardo, while among the 10% with the highest incomes 70,6% are white and only 27,7% are black or pardo.
3. Also on the subject of income, on average, a white person earns 17 BRL/hour, while blacks and pardos earn 10.1 BRL/hour. Even when you compare people with higher degrees of education (bachelor or higher), whites, on average, earn 32.8 BRL/hour, while blacks and pardos only 22.7 BRL/hour. If you take the monthly income, on average, whites earn 2796 BRL, while blacks and pardos 1608 BRL, and if you split the jobs in formal and informal ones (basically people with contracts and people without), in formal jobs, the numbers are 3282 BRL and 2082 BRL, and in informal jobs, 1814 BRL and 1050 BRL. Just as a reminder, right now, 1 USD is 5.44 BRL and, in 2018, 1 USD varied from 3.8 to 4.2 BRL.
4. Regarding management jobs, 68.6% are done by whites, and only 29.9% by blacks and pardos, despite blacks and pardos being the majority of the population.
5. The number of homicides per 100.000 people is 16 for whites and 43.4 for blacks and pardos. That's almost three times higher. If you consider people from 15 to 29 years old, the numbers are 34 for whites and 98.5 for blacks and pardos. The numbers for this item are from 2017.
6. As for illiteracy rates, 3.9% of the whites above 15 years old are illiterate, while 9.1% of blacks and pardos can't read or write.
7. In our Congress, only 24.4% of the congressmen are black or pardo.
Other things that deserve being mentioned are:
1. Most blacks and pardos study in public schools and, here, the huge majority of the public schools have a horrible quality. Horrible quality of education, horrible quality of infrastructure, horrible everything.
2. When it comes to police violence, I leave this article from BBC and the following quote from it:
"As the black and the poorest are usually the victims, there is very limited public criticism - and the cases are rarely fully investigated. When I was in Rio last year, many outside the poorest areas told me they saw it as the price to be paid in an effort to fight unacceptably high levels of crime."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-51220364
3. As for higher education, in public universities (here, public universities are way better than private ones), in 2018, thanks to affirmative actions (that started in the early 2000's and got strengthened in 2012), 50.3% of the students were blacks or pardos. It is a very different scenario if compared to what I experienced when I got into a public university in 2012, when there was no racial affirmative action in my university. At that time, out of 36 students in my class, only 3 (maybe four... I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting somebody) were pardos (me included) and nobody was really, really black. To be honest, among all the student I knew that were from the same course, the only one that was "African black" was a real African. That situation, thankfully, changed in the following years.

Now, that being said, I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE with the argument that minorities - in this case, blacks - are "trying to get paid for the work of their ancestors" and that now they are treated as "equal citizen and have the same opportunities as any race". Unfortunately, the numbers don't lie. At least in my country, those statements aren't valid, and I believe that, in the US, to some extent, they aren't valid either.

At least here, people still suffer from all the discrimination that dates back to the time when slavery was still a thing. And I would like to point out that Brazil was one of the last countries to abolish slavery, doing that only in 1888.
----
My previous message, I think, would be enough to give an idea (specially the link I posted). It is based on the situation in Brazil, but I think its interpretation can be partially extrapolated to the situation in the US.
I still can't talk about the specific case of the US because I'm not from there and never been there. However, to make you aware of what being a black man (or "pardo", that is generally called black in the US) means in Brazil, I'll make a few questions:
1. Is there an "unofficial rule" where you live that states that, if you are a black man (or "pardo"), you shouldn't walk with your hands in your pocket (specially if they are coat pockets) or wearing a hood, otherwise cops will probably stop you or, in some cases, even shoot you if they find you "suspect enough"?
2. Are blacks (and pardos) in your country generally followed by security guards in stores, while whites aren't?
3. Is your country's police the one that kills the most in the world or, at least, is it among the "top" ones in that criteria?
4. Is your country's police widely known for having a very aggressive behavior, specially toward blacks?
5. Are the "victims" (between quotes because it is hard to call someone a victim when he/she is a real criminal) of your country's police, in the huge majority of the cases, blacks/pardos and poor?
5. Does your city (yes, city) have, on average, per month, more than one case of black kids (and, generally, only black kids and, usually, innocent) being killed by cops doing shit? Include here even cases of cops torturing kids.
5. Does your city have, on average, per month, multiple cases of blacks being killed by cops under very "questionable" circumstances, including cases where even the cops can't agree on the circumstances and just say that the person was a criminal because... they are cops and that's it.
6. Does your country have a problem with institutional racism that results in cases of homicides committed against blacks and the poor not being properly investigated?
7. Does your country have a problem with institutional racism that makes it hard for blacks to have access to good education and, even if they reach higher degrees of education, to get a good job?
8. Do the blacks where you live have lower wages than whites doing the same jobs, even when the blacks are more qualified or have better performance?

If your answer to one or more of these questions is "yes", then the blacks in your country have good reasons to complain. Specially because the time passes and things don't change (or the changes are minimal).
--- End ---
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Last edited by Caeiro; 07-15-2020 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

As much as the protests are justified, I can't see how they are going to change anything.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

Hi There!!

Blacks Kill Blacks

The Numbers Do Not Lie

Is this New

Blacks Sold Blacks before they ever saw a White Man

Check the History

Can the problem be fixed

Our Masters Do Not Want It Fixed

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Old 11-26-2020, 06:18 AM   #6
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

Every Nation on this planet has a dominate race of people because of this there is privilege of dominance. Whether it it Black; White; brown or Yellow.
History or slavery came about by: War; starvation and economics. We all have limits on how much prosperity we can offer to someone before we are in danger of economic tragedy. There is a time when they have to move on or an agreement is made where a servitude agreement is made. The servitude or slavery in Africa was formed the same way. The interpretation of languages was not exact back then and even to this day we can get it wrong. Ethnic slavery happened all around the world.
Ethnic crime happens all around.
Every protest is a cry for help no matter the violence that takes place. The only hard part is weeding out the violence.
The Democratic agenda is 100% different than the Republican values. Democrats don't want compromise at any level. That way of thinking is a Slave Master. Republicans first and foremost wants Law and Order. You can't get anything done if everybody is yelling all at the same time. And yes there is a difference between the Democrats and the Liberals. They say and mean what they stand for an want. They do just that and they don't lie to get your vote. Yes some Republicans have lied to to get your vote. The first time in ages that has change. We have always needed a business man in office. Everything he campaigned for he has done. And he has not taken a wage. Every other President has and they were rich too. He didn't throw World renowned parties like all the rest. Through all the hate he has not folded. He continues to work tirelessly even through the night to make our lives better.
Employee wage is based qualifications and negotiation. When I worked as a heavy equipment mechanic and I went to look for a job, I would first interview with the mechanics manager before I filled out an application. I would pull up to the mechanics area I would back my truck in with my tool box's showing and every mechanic could easily see my qualifications. My tools boxes was very expensive. That told them all of my qualification. Regardless of their hiring process is was up to the mechanics manager if I was to be hired. The quality of my tools told them that I was committed to doing quality work. The manager would ask me about my marriage status and children and then where I was leaving my previous employment. The next thing he asked was how much money I wanted, that is when the negotiation ended. What ever amount of money the prospective employee said the can live with is it. If I asked for the base amount and got it, it would be very hard to ask for more simply because I lacked qualifications or confidence in what I could do and the lack of negotiation skills.
Just because someone is a Republican does not mean we are a Cop supporter. We are Republicans because we support and defend the Constitution of These United States of America. The first and foremost is Law and Order so we can hear what is being said. Good action and conversation can not be enjoyed when a Molotov Cocktail is being thrown. Cops are not (the) solution.

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Old 11-26-2020, 07:39 AM   #7
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

I do agree that humanity creates tiers since everyone wants to feel better than someone else.
The rich against the poor, religious against Atheists, and in the US, Whites vs Minorities, especially Blacks.

Despite that, your premise indicates that the Democrats want to milk the conflict while the Republicans, specifically under Trump wish to resolve it.

Doesn't that feel like too open of a statement to state? The Democrat Party has an 85% vote rate from Blacks, so clearly they don't feel they are disenfranchised.

I *can* believe the concept that they are being fooled and that voters hate changing their minds, but clearly they see Democrats as something more that they support that Trump has yet to provide.

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Old 11-26-2020, 08:39 AM   #8
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

Police officers don't know you and don't know if you are a friend or foe. They don't know what mental state your in or how you will react. They do carry guns and other weapons. Police officers are from mothers and fathers, sisters and brothers. Just because they put a uniform on does not mean they stopped being a loved one. Police officer are the for the most part are first on scene. They are asked and a lot of times forced into situations that require them to live with something horrific. I am a felon myself. I killed a man when I was 17 back in 1977. I was convicted and was given a 99 year prison term. I have been on parole since 1989. I have no fear of police and I don't blame them for my wrong doings. Nor would I ever harm them or anybody else ever again. If I get stopped due to a traffic violation, they run my tags and the traffic stop automatically becomes a felony stop and back up is called. Instead of one officer approaching my car I have three. Two on the side front doors and one at the back of the car. I always have all my information ready for them in plane sight. I turn the car off, turn on the dome light, I take the keys out of the ignition and place them far away from me. I stay seat belted and I roll down the window all the way and place my hands through the steering wheel and place them on the dash. I want them to feel safe. You can not stop someone from feelings. If we don't have law and order then we are doomed. Not all police officers are bad people.

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Old 11-26-2020, 09:13 AM   #9
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xineoph View Post
I do agree that humanity creates tiers since everyone wants to feel better than someone else.
The rich against the poor, religious against Atheists, and in the US, Whites vs Minorities, especially Blacks.

Despite that, your premise indicates that the Democrats want to milk the conflict while the Republicans, specifically under Trump wish to resolve it.

Doesn't that feel like too open of a statement to state? The Democrat Party has an 85% vote rate from Blacks, so clearly they don't feel they are disenfranchised.

I *can* believe the concept that they are being fooled and that voters hate changing their minds, but clearly they see Democrats as something more that they support that Trump has yet to provide.
You left no answer: President Lincoln made a comment concerning classification of people. The comment was made by a woman who endorsed slavery by the color shade of the skin tone. To paraphrase Lincoln, he said: So you agree that a person of a dark skin color should be a slave and her answer was Yes. Lincoln continue: So you agree that you yourself should be a slave. She didn't agree. Lincoln went on: Mam, you are darker than that lady over there. Her skin tone is a lot lighter than yours.
Now I can not agree that All rich people are bad nor do I agree that all religious people (Christian, Buddhist, Hindu ect... are bad people and whites) How do you decide who is good and who is bad? I am white I would like to know how I am to be dealt with? According to your statement: All rich; All religious and All Whites are bad people. Are we all to be lined up and exterminated? What am I to say to my wife who is black? She didn't owe me nor did I order her to marry me. The biggest thing that pops out to me is that if you exterminate all rich people; all religious people and all white you will have nothing but poor people; nothing but atheists and nothing but minorities and especially blacks. Who do you go after next? Do you go exterminate the poor people then you exterminate atheists and exterminate all the minorities. Whats left after that? Well after all the above is gone whats left is the blacks. You start exterminating anyone of a lighter skin tone. God help you if your child comes out with a lighter skin tone. Where does the love and compassion come in? In the end there is no desire to succeed no hope or faith, no one to love.

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Old 11-26-2020, 11:48 AM   #10
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

I'm not going to go into the mechanics of the (stolen) election, but if one hasn't imbibed in the Kool-aid of partisan politics, the "social justice" movement in the US is taking an interesting turn. All of a sudden, we are in for 2 years at least of Jimmy Carter 2.0 with a man who seriously needs his meds to make it past 10 AM. But SHAZAM! Suddenly the movement is off the headlines, and the SJW types suddenly realize the new Biden cabinet will not resemble them! Will there be more riots? More Organized riots? Hardly. They have served their purpose. As the song goes, "meet the new boss, same as the old boss." I for one am looking forward to some world-class congressional gridlock.
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