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Old 07-15-2020, 02:51 AM   #1
happy5214 
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Default Protests for social justice

What do you guys think about the recent protests resulting from the death of George Floyd? It seems the violent part is over, and now is the time for action. Will things actually change? What reforms, if any, would you suggest? Discuss here.
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Old 07-15-2020, 03:24 AM   #2
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

That's the question. Will there be any reforms? What the George Floyd incident did was separate Americans more from what I see.

If you're someone who would vote Republican, you're even more likely to support police now, and Democrats the opposite.


For the Americans, how serious are peoples stories that approaching an officer can be a death-wish and that they're always on edge?

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Old 07-15-2020, 03:06 PM   #3
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

I believe that the incident is important to show the western society that things like racism (some reactions to the incident more than the incident itself) and police violence are problems that are still very present in this side of the world, including in the so-called "biggest democracy" in the world.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xineoph View Post
That's the question. Will there be any reforms? What the George Floyd incident did was separate Americans more from what I see.

If you're someone who would vote Republican, you're even more likely to support police now, and Democrats the opposite.


For the Americans, how serious are peoples stories that approaching an officer can be a death-wish and that they're always on edge?
I would like to answer your position using something that I already posted in the channel "#member-politics".

It probably won't make much sense because, now, it will be out of context, because those messages were answers to other conversations about that topic.

--- Beginning ---
Living in a country (Brazil) where "institutional racism" is a thing, I'd like to clarify some things.

Firstly, the situation in my country:
1. In Brazil, in 2018, 55,8% of the population considered themselves black or "pardo" (mixed race). It was the first time more than 50% of the population classified themselves that way. Previously, it was very common for a substantial number of "pardos" to call themselves white, even if they weren't "white".
2. Here, 75,2% of those who have the 10% lowest incomes in the country are black or pardo, while among the 10% with the highest incomes 70,6% are white and only 27,7% are black or pardo.
3. Also on the subject of income, on average, a white person earns 17 BRL/hour, while blacks and pardos earn 10.1 BRL/hour. Even when you compare people with higher degrees of education (bachelor or higher), whites, on average, earn 32.8 BRL/hour, while blacks and pardos only 22.7 BRL/hour. If you take the monthly income, on average, whites earn 2796 BRL, while blacks and pardos 1608 BRL, and if you split the jobs in formal and informal ones (basically people with contracts and people without), in formal jobs, the numbers are 3282 BRL and 2082 BRL, and in informal jobs, 1814 BRL and 1050 BRL. Just as a reminder, right now, 1 USD is 5.44 BRL and, in 2018, 1 USD varied from 3.8 to 4.2 BRL.
4. Regarding management jobs, 68.6% are done by whites, and only 29.9% by blacks and pardos, despite blacks and pardos being the majority of the population.
5. The number of homicides per 100.000 people is 16 for whites and 43.4 for blacks and pardos. That's almost three times higher. If you consider people from 15 to 29 years old, the numbers are 34 for whites and 98.5 for blacks and pardos. The numbers for this item are from 2017.
6. As for illiteracy rates, 3.9% of the whites above 15 years old are illiterate, while 9.1% of blacks and pardos can't read or write.
7. In our Congress, only 24.4% of the congressmen are black or pardo.
Other things that deserve being mentioned are:
1. Most blacks and pardos study in public schools and, here, the huge majority of the public schools have a horrible quality. Horrible quality of education, horrible quality of infrastructure, horrible everything.
2. When it comes to police violence, I leave this article from BBC and the following quote from it:
"As the black and the poorest are usually the victims, there is very limited public criticism - and the cases are rarely fully investigated. When I was in Rio last year, many outside the poorest areas told me they saw it as the price to be paid in an effort to fight unacceptably high levels of crime."
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-51220364
3. As for higher education, in public universities (here, public universities are way better than private ones), in 2018, thanks to affirmative actions (that started in the early 2000's and got strengthened in 2012), 50.3% of the students were blacks or pardos. It is a very different scenario if compared to what I experienced when I got into a public university in 2012, when there was no racial affirmative action in my university. At that time, out of 36 students in my class, only 3 (maybe four... I'm pretty sure I'm forgetting somebody) were pardos (me included) and nobody was really, really black. To be honest, among all the student I knew that were from the same course, the only one that was "African black" was a real African. That situation, thankfully, changed in the following years.

Now, that being said, I have to STRONGLY DISAGREE with the argument that minorities - in this case, blacks - are "trying to get paid for the work of their ancestors" and that now they are treated as "equal citizen and have the same opportunities as any race". Unfortunately, the numbers don't lie. At least in my country, those statements aren't valid, and I believe that, in the US, to some extent, they aren't valid either.

At least here, people still suffer from all the discrimination that dates back to the time when slavery was still a thing. And I would like to point out that Brazil was one of the last countries to abolish slavery, doing that only in 1888.
----
My previous message, I think, would be enough to give an idea (specially the link I posted). It is based on the situation in Brazil, but I think its interpretation can be partially extrapolated to the situation in the US.
I still can't talk about the specific case of the US because I'm not from there and never been there. However, to make you aware of what being a black man (or "pardo", that is generally called black in the US) means in Brazil, I'll make a few questions:
1. Is there an "unofficial rule" where you live that states that, if you are a black man (or "pardo"), you shouldn't walk with your hands in your pocket (specially if they are coat pockets) or wearing a hood, otherwise cops will probably stop you or, in some cases, even shoot you if they find you "suspect enough"?
2. Are blacks (and pardos) in your country generally followed by security guards in stores, while whites aren't?
3. Is your country's police the one that kills the most in the world or, at least, is it among the "top" ones in that criteria?
4. Is your country's police widely known for having a very aggressive behavior, specially toward blacks?
5. Are the "victims" (between quotes because it is hard to call someone a victim when he/she is a real criminal) of your country's police, in the huge majority of the cases, blacks/pardos and poor?
5. Does your city (yes, city) have, on average, per month, more than one case of black kids (and, generally, only black kids and, usually, innocent) being killed by cops doing shit? Include here even cases of cops torturing kids.
5. Does your city have, on average, per month, multiple cases of blacks being killed by cops under very "questionable" circumstances, including cases where even the cops can't agree on the circumstances and just say that the person was a criminal because... they are cops and that's it.
6. Does your country have a problem with institutional racism that results in cases of homicides committed against blacks and the poor not being properly investigated?
7. Does your country have a problem with institutional racism that makes it hard for blacks to have access to good education and, even if they reach higher degrees of education, to get a good job?
8. Do the blacks where you live have lower wages than whites doing the same jobs, even when the blacks are more qualified or have better performance?

If your answer to one or more of these questions is "yes", then the blacks in your country have good reasons to complain. Specially because the time passes and things don't change (or the changes are minimal).
--- End ---
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Last edited by Caeiro; 07-15-2020 at 03:13 PM.
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Old 07-16-2020, 12:31 AM   #4
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

As much as the protests are justified, I can't see how they are going to change anything.
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Old 07-16-2020, 06:06 AM   #5
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Default Re: Protests for social justice

Hi There!!

Blacks Kill Blacks

The Numbers Do Not Lie

Is this New

Blacks Sold Blacks before they ever saw a White Man

Check the History

Can the problem be fixed

Our Masters Do Not Want It Fixed

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