The Cold War, pt. 2

[FreeMason]

Holy crap. Not good.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7496399.stm

Russia warns over US-Czech shield

Russia's foreign ministry has said it will be forced to react with military means if a US-Czech agreement over a missile defence shield is ratified.

The statement comes hours after the US signed an initial deal to base part of Washington's controversial missile defence system in the Czech Republic.

It said Russia would respond "not with diplomatic, but with military-technical methods" if the system was deployed.

Moscow says siting the system near its borders could weaken its own defence.

It has previously threatened to aim its own missiles at any eventual base in Poland or the Czech Republic.

Tracking system

The deal signed by US Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice in Prague on Tuesday allows a tracking radar base to be set up on Czech territory.

The plans remain unpopular in the Czech Republic and the US has also failed to reach agreement with Poland on placing other parts of the system there.

The missile defence system would include the tracking radar system in the Czech Republic and 10 interceptor missiles in Poland. The US wants the sites to be in operation by about 2012.

A second deal covering the status of US soldiers at the Czech base has not been agreed.

Czech opposition parties have strongly criticised the plans and are calling for a national referendum.

The plans would have to be approved by the Czech parliament, where the government would need the votes of the opposition parties to get them through.

Jan Majicek, of the No Bases Initiative, said that more than 100,000 people had signed a petition against the Czech base.

[hArRyBeAvEr]

This has been going on for a while now

[FreeMason]

Well yes, but this is still an open threat of military force by Russia. I realize that Putin has also been aiming missiles pretty much all around the world, but this U.S./Czech deal could very well set everything off.

[IronsightSniper]

I doubt Russia would actually attack the U.S.

[FreeMason]

I don't know. Putin seems very anti-West. And what's most frightening about them is that they're sitting on a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons.

[Zagato]

I realize that Putin has also been aiming missiles pretty much all around the world, but this U.S./Czech deal could very well set everything off.
It's Medvedev now.

[FreeMason]

Putin may have stepped aside as president, but before he did he created the new position of Prime Minister, which is the position that really holds the power. And guess who's Russia's PM? Vladimir Putin. Medvedev is the official leader of Russia, but he has very little real power. So far as I'm concerned, it's still Putin.

[leninrocks244]

Oh Jesus....

[totem]

I don't know. Putin seems very anti-West. And what's most frightening about them is that they're sitting on a massive stockpile of nuclear weapons.

As is the US.. thats been keeping the balance so far. But a US anti-missile shield placed on Russia's doorstep kinda destabilizes things..

[The Corporal]

What I can't understand is how Russia can claim that there is no likelihood of countries like Iran, Syria, and North Korea being able to manufacture and apply missile technology that would threaten Europe. I see no reason for Russia to not collaborate with our missile defense plans, but then again I see no reason for us and them to not get along better anyways. Russian-American cooperation (in general) would only benefit both countries. Look at the cooperation between our space programs...

[FreeMason]

What I can't understand is how Russia can claim that there is no likelihood of countries like Iran, Syria, and North Korea being able to manufacture and apply missile technology that would threaten Europe. I see no reason for Russia to not collaborate with our missile defense plans, but then again I see no reason for us and them to not get along better anyways. Russian-American cooperation (in general) would only benefit both countries. Look at the cooperation between our space programs...

Putin hates us. He may not be incredibly open about it in public, but you have to remember he's ex-KGB. The Cold War really hasn't ended yet. There's just been a 17 year "ceasefire", so to speak. So long as Russia and the U.S. both have huge nuclear stockpiles, the tensions between the two nations will flare up again and again. One wrong move, and the world ends. And yet the majority of America doesn't even realize this is going on. Either that, or they just don't care.

[Zagato]

Putin hates us.

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41891000/jpg/_41891190_golf-afp-416.jpg

He seems to get along with the US government fine!

[FreeMason]

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41891000/jpg/_41891190_golf-afp-416.jpg

He seems to get along with the US government fine!

Then why would he point missiles at both the U.S. and Europe? Why has he been so hostile towards the West in the past few years? In my opinion, it's largely a political show when Putin and Bush meet. But again, that's my opinion, and is largely speculative, though Russia's most recent actions tend to support it.

[Zagato]

Then why would he point missiles at both the U.S. and Europe? Why has he been so hostile towards the West in the past few years? In my opinion, it's largely a political show when Putin and Bush meet. But again, that's my opinion, and is largely speculative, though Russia's most recent actions tend to support it.

I don't recall him pointing missiles at the U.S.
Besides, he isn't president anymore.
The only things he's done to annoy the west over the years was restart bomber patrols around his country and help fund/build an Iranian nuclear reactor.

[The Corporal]

I don't recall him pointing missiles at the U.S.
Besides, he isn't president anymore.
The only things he's done to annoy the west over the years was restart bomber patrols around his country and help fund/build an Iranian nuclear reactor.

Not all the missiles that were aimed at the U.S. during the Cold War were targeted elsewhere. It's not that Putin was really drunk, in his boxers, one day and said "let's aim a few at Washington just for fun today." I can see why Putin feels the way he does. I suppose I was hoping for glasnost to last beyond the Yeltsin years...

[Zagato]

This just in, Iran tested a medium-range missile which has a range of about 2,000 km, putting all of Israel, Turkey, Pakistan and the Arabian peninsula within striking distance.

[hArRyBeAvEr]

Whoever said Putin created the PM position, sorry but you're wrong. There was a PM while Putin was president and yet Putin had all the power anyways. (Also Russian Constitution states that no person my run for President more than two times in a row, but after the current Russian's presidency is over, Putin can lead Russia again)

And its not that Russia hates us but they don't agree with many of our actions, which many of us don't agree with.

(Oh and something I find pretty funny is that Putin actually likes American Republicans more than Democrats, but he dislikes McCain, as McCain dislikes him)

And as for Iran..most people will not agree with me but Iran needs to be taught who's boss

[bigdaddychacha]

I suppose I was hoping for glasnost to last beyond the Yeltsin years...

I agree, it's a shame things seem to have deteriorated between our countries. I don't think Russia represents as serious a threat as they did during the Cold War, but obviously I'd vastly rather we didn't go to war with them. It really felt good during the 90s when it seemed like we were all going to be friends from then on. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were both a lot of fun.

[Zagato]

I agree, it's a shame things seem to have deteriorated between our countries. I don't think Russia represents as serious a threat as they did during the Cold War, but obviously I'd vastly rather we didn't go to war with them. It really felt good during the 90s when it seemed like we were all going to be friends from then on. Gorbachev and Yeltsin were both a lot of fun.
I don't think Russia represented a threat during the Cold War after the 60's, besides the fact it was the most serious nuclear rival to the United States. But Russia and the US still have enough nuclear weapons today to ruin the earth. I hope there would be more in the form of S.A.L.T. talks between the two countries in the near future.

Sure, Gorbachev and Yeltsin were more friendly to the United States, though they were hopeless in their own country. Gorbachev promised great things, but screwed the country up. Yeltsin was indeed the first President, but he led Russia into Capitalism too quickly, causing a time of great economic depression, even worse than the Communist period. I like how Putin fixed most things up, but he seemed to put more and more limits on democracy in order to do this. No matter, I can see why. There are still many, many communists in the country who want him out of power.

[Darth Elecian]

I highly doubt that Medvedev will actually risk war by attacking any defense base placed within Eastern Europe. They really need to realize that this missile shield plan won't be effective against their nuclear missile launches and that it was meant to counter any Iranian missiles launched towards Europe. Russia is only getting pissed because NATO is absorbing Eastern European countries like a sponge therefore Russia's sphere of influence is decreasing. Seriously, when will they remember that the Warsaw Pact ended with the cold war?!

[Zagato]

I highly doubt that Medvedev will actually risk war by attacking any defense base placed within Eastern Europe. They really need to realize that this missile shield plan won't be effective against their nuclear missile launches and that it was meant to counter any Iranian missiles launched towards Europe. Russia is only getting pissed because NATO is absorbing Eastern European countries like a sponge therefore Russia's sphere of influence is decreasing. Seriously, when will they remember that the Warsaw Pact ended with the cold war?!

A missile shield is indeed a threat to Russia. Just image if someone puts missile shields over Latin America and Canada? Then people in the UN will just go "shut up America, we like our own plans. It's not like you can do anything about it, your missiles can't get through, across the North Pole now!" This missile shield would vastly reduce Russia's say in things. Then NATO would be able to push them around.

I can see why Russia is angry about losing friends to NATO. You have to remember, NATO has special trade deals. So if all of Eastern Europe decides to join NATO and use the Euro, trade with Russia will slowly decline.

[leninrocks244]

A missile shield is indeed a threat to Russia. Just image if someone puts missile shields over Latin America and Canada? Then people in the UN will just go "shut up America, we like our own plans. It's not like you can do anything about it, your missiles can't get through, across the North Pole now!" This missile shield would vastly reduce Russia's say in things. Then NATO would be able to push them around.

I can see why Russia is angry about losing friends to NATO. You have to remember, NATO has special trade deals. So if all of Eastern Europe decides to join NATO and use the Euro, trade with Russia will slowly decline.

Do you mean the EU?

[KanaX]

Trade with Russia is hardly going to decline, ever. Europe needs Russian energy and raw materials, while Russia needs European investments and products. Mutually beneficial relations, that's the word of the day.

Also, you might wonder who's the least popular leader in Russian history. It's not Stalin, who massacred millions of people and it's not even Tsar Nikolai II. No, it's Boris Yeltsin, the man whose rule was characterized by Russian weakness and decline. Putin is popular for a reason. A strong leader has always been popular in Russia, and Putin has some pretty good charisma. He's also just the thing that Russia needed after Yeltsin.

[leninrocks244]

Trade with Russia is hardly going to decline, ever. Europe needs Russian energy and raw materials, while Russia needs European investments and products. Mutually beneficial relations, that's the word of the day.

Also, you might wonder who's the least popular leader in Russian history. It's not Stalin, who massacred millions of people and it's not even Tsar Nikolai II. No, it's Boris Yeltsin, the man whose rule was characterized by Russian weakness and decline. Putin is popular for a reason. A strong leader has always been popular in Russia, and Putin has some pretty good charisma. He's also just the thing that Russia needed after Yeltsin.

Let's not forget that Yeltsin was a drunk.

[bigdaddychacha]

Let's not forget that Yeltsin was a drunk.

So was Churchill...

With regards to Yeltsin, maybe it takes a little bit of liquid courage to get up on top of a tank a stare down a Communist coup, you can hardly hold that against the man!

[heilesabre]

Unfortunately Yeltsin was also pro-West, and he screwed things up badly. Gorbachev and Yeltsin steered their countries close to the Western orbit, and they also wrecked the Russian economy. There's not necessarily a correlation between the two, but most Russians don't see it that way.

Simply put, if Yeltsin had the strength and charisma that Putin has, the Cold War would have been a thing of the past.

[leninrocks244]

So was Churchill...

With regards to Yeltsin, maybe it takes a little bit of liquid courage to get up on top of a tank a stare down a Communist coup, you can hardly hold that against the man!

But Churchill was able to manage his own country and lead it against a behemoth of Germans.

[The Corporal]

But Churchill was able to manage his own country and lead it against a behemoth of Germans.

He also said some of the funniest things ever uttered by a head of government (until Reagan, at least).

I think there might still be a little Cold War mentality in both NATO, the EU, and Russia. If Russia were to join the EU (most of the population lives west of the Urals) they wouldn't have to worry about trading. It'll never happen because they really like their sovereignty, but they could join NATO as well. I highly doubt Islamic fundamentalists (terrorists or the Iranian government) would discriminate between EU targets and Russian targets, economic ties or no.

[leninrocks244]

He also said some of the funniest things ever uttered by a head of government (until Reagan, at least).

I think there might still be a little Cold War mentality in both NATO, the EU, and Russia. If Russia were to join the EU (most of the population lives west of the Urals) they wouldn't have to worry about trading. It'll never happen because they really like their sovereignty, but they could join NATO as well. I highly doubt Islamic fundamentalists (terrorists or the Iranian government) would discriminate between EU targets and Russian targets, economic ties or no.

Yeah, even though Churchill was conservative I still think he was one of the greatest rulers England ever had.... next to King Arthur.

Russia never has to worry about trading. They have natural resources up the ass. Oil, natural gas, lumber, fish, gems, iron, coal. The list goes on.

[KanaX]

Yeah, even though Churchill was conservative I still think he was one of the greatest rulers England ever had.... next to King Arthur.

Russia never has to worry about trading. They have natural resources up the ass. Oil, natural gas, lumber, fish, gems, iron, coal. The list goes on.

Maybe they could join my trade guild?:hmmmmm:

[leninrocks244]

Maybe they could join my trade guild?:hmmmmm:

Why not? Although you have to give something good in return.

[KanaX]

Why not? Although you have to give something good in return.

Well, let's see. I got lumber and fish, dunno if they're in the purple team nor do I know what sort of tradeset are they after so....nah.

[leninrocks244]

Well, let's see. I got lumber and fish, dunno if they're in the purple team nor do I know what sort of tradeset are they after so....nah.

Yeah, Russia has both of them up the ass.