Prices.

[Villalba]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/business/10oil.html?ref=business

It quickly went back down, to $110 dollars per barrel.

If you have an SUV, or a Hummer, or a Peter Griffin Tank. Expect to loose a lot of money this year.

If you have a small car, a hybrid, or a vicicle. Good for you.

If you live outside the United States, In places like Norway, or Sweeden, Good for you.

If you live in US borders, and or other countries that require for the govt to pay for outside crude. Is better to buy a bycicle...

[The Corporal]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/10/business/10oil.html?ref=business

It quickly went back down, to $110 dollars per barrel.

If you have an SUV, or a Hummer, or a Peter Griffin Tank. Expect to loose a lot of money this year.

If you have a small car, a hybrid, or a vicicle. Good for you.

If you live outside the United States, In places like Norway, or Sweeden, Good for you.

If you live in US borders, and or other countries that require for the govt to pay for outside crude. Is better to buy a bycicle...

Hey Ford Excursion owners! It might be time to ditch your Land Destroyer and just rent a semi for when you need to move really large loads. There's no way in hell you need all that space. :D

[Imperial]

Yet ExxonMobil posted record $70 billion dollar profits. Whatever oil companies!

[Zagato]

Diesels cars should really be more available in North America. If they're so successful everywhere else in the world, why can't they come here? I mean they're not as dirty anymore as we remember them from the 80's.

If the price continues to rise, I'll be forced to buy a 20 year old diesel Merc.

[bigdaddychacha]

Glad I'm temporarily in Korea, subsisting on public transportation, which is more than adequate here!

[Arcadian Empire]

Which part of Korea?

[bigdaddychacha]

Which part of Korea?

I'm in Anyang-si, basically a southern suburb of Seoul...it's on the Seoul subway line. I used to live in Seoul, but Anyang is still the second largest city I've ever lived in!

[Villalba]

Southern? Oh okay South Korea then ^^

[Camarilla]

Well I live about 20 minutes from the Canadian border and go up to Vancouver fairly often, I'm just glad I don't have to pay the prices I see up there, last time I went most places were around 1.50-2.00 Canadian dollar (Which is about par) per liter. That translates to $5.67 - $7.56 per gallon.
So I really hate everyone complaining when my Canadian friends aren't complaining at all about their gas. Just deal with it its not like its that bad, my Range Rover gets ~14 MPG and I really don't mind paying for that gas as long as I can go to Canada and laugh at them for paying so much more than us.
Also I don't see the problem in the petrol companies making profits, they exists to make their investors happy, if you weren't smart enough to buy stocks in one of them don't complain to those that were smart with their money.

And before someone calls me a republican, I'm not. I supported Barack Obama in my county's caucus.

[The Corporal]

Yet ExxonMobil posted record $70 billion dollar profits. Whatever oil companies!

In their defense, the oil companies caught a lot of flak in the mid-80s when they had to scale back salaried employees because the companies weren't making any money. The profits seem really excessive, but when you think about how much money it takes to do oil exploration ($200,000 per day for a single deep-sea oil rig and at least $80,000/day for even the easiest-to-drill land-based wells) it's not that terrible. That money will be reinvested in exploration projects and, for companies like BP and Chevron, will go towards research in alternate energy sources. I didn't know this until I took an Energy Resources class, but BP is the world's largest maker of solar panels.

And yes, gas prices in Canada and Europe are still much worse than they are here. Of course, cars and trucks are utilized a lot less in Europe than they are here even if you correct for the population difference, so the hit on the economy isn't as great.

[Sinatra]

Just a bit of very rough maths, in the UK we're paying just over $10 a gallon for petrol and just over $10.60 for diesel.

In regards to oil companies making money it is to be expected when you are dealing with such a valuable commodity as oil. The companies need to make their money now with the dwindling reserves because when oil does run out so will their business.

Investing in alternatives such as bio fuel, oil shale or of course the cleaner hydrogen and solar energy sources will be expensive at the beginning and I imagine there will be little profit in those for energy companies until the production of the fuels becomes efficient and everyone has switched to a universal new fuel and a market is created. Oil companies know this which is why they are looking at their future and investing their money wisely.

A great deal of the Saudi oil companies are investing in hotels and casinos. When oil reserves dry up they will still need income and they are looking for finance elsewhere. The U.S and other countries alike have asked the Saudi’s to increase production however they appear to have over pumped their supply and have reached maximum production.

The only way to really lower barrel price is to flood the market with new supply. Either new sources are found, existing countries increase production or national reserves are flooded on the private market. Food also is another commodity which is increasing in price, I am no economist but when economies are strong increasing prices which be matched with an increasing economy and increasing wages so the effects are negligible, however with the obvious global credit crunch costing the world (I have heard figures of it costing $1trillion) the squeeze is being more greatly felt.

[The Corporal]

One of the major driving factors behind food prices is the idiotic approach to ethanol production and the push by environmentalists to switch over completely to a corn-based ethanol system. What most such people don't realize is that when corn supplies are diverted to fuel production, corn, corn-derived products, and even animal operations that rely on corn for animal feed become much more expensive. I heard somewhere that at least 50% (and maybe as high as 70%) of the food products in the U.S. contain some corn-based material (mostly corn starch and corn syrup). Beef, milk, and cheese are also affected because many herds of cattle are fed corn. Since available corn is becoming more scarce, it costs farmers more to feed their livestock. Instead of slowly bankrupting our economy on corn-based ethanol, more research needs to go into converting cellulosic plant material to ethanol (switchgrass was a prime example of a plentiful source of ethanol, if only we knew how to mass-produce ethanol from it).

There also needs to be some sort of intelligence test when filling out loan or mortgage paperwork...

[Villalba]

The cure would be, to use bycicles. Perhaps America can go from one of the most obese Nations in the world. To one of the most healthy nations. Of course, there would be the huge impact in the economy. Not to mention a cross country travel would be too much. Heck some people don't even bother going on a few blocks to the supermarket in their bycicles. Other than the fact that automobiles, aren't the only things relying on oil. Well....better yet. Invade Canada. I heard they have reserves.

[Imperial]

In their defense, the oil companies caught a lot of flak in the mid-80s when they had to scale back salaried employees because the companies weren't making any money. The profits seem really excessive, but when you think about how much money it takes to do oil exploration ($200,000 per day for a single deep-sea oil rig and at least $80,000/day for even the easiest-to-drill land-based wells) it's not that terrible. That money will be reinvested in exploration projects and, for companies like BP and Chevron, will go towards research in alternate energy sources. I didn't know this until I took an Energy Resources class, but BP is the world's largest maker of solar panels.
I would believe you if ExxonMobile was actually using their record profits for productive research & technological development. Which they are not: http://www.iht.com/articles/2007/05/27/business/exxon.php. BP is making solar panels, that's good. Exxon is not. Chevron is "exploring" renewable energies, but again, they are still an oil company with the vast majority of energy produced by oil. So when Chevron says that they are "largest supplier of geothermal energy" doesn't really mean much when there is only one or two geothermal stations in operation compared to thousands of oil derricks.

[wain]

Last I checked, gas was $3.26 a gallon here in my town.

[Great Lakes Union]

The cure would be, to use bycicles. Perhaps America can go from one of the most obese Nations in the world. To one of the most healthy nations. Of course, there would be the huge impact in the economy. Not to mention a cross country travel would be too much. Heck some people don't even bother going on a few blocks to the supermarket in their bycicles. Other than the fact that automobiles, aren't the only things relying on oil. Well....better yet. Invade Canada. I heard they have reserves.

Bikes could work in the cities, but lots of people I know live 30+ miles away from work and there is no way you will get people to ride that far twice a day. You would pretty much have to abandon the suburbs and exurbs to make bikes a particle solution. (Not that that would be a bad thing, but I don't see it happening quick enough to be a real solution).

[Zagato]

There's always public transportation, though with that you'll be forced to base your entire life on a bus schedule.

[Villalba]

Public transportation is a drag. And if oil prices keep on the increase, then everything increases, including fares for buses.

[Camarilla]

Well there is another temporary solution, its up in that big ice field we call Alaska. ANWR drilling wouldn't be too bad of a temporary fix.
But for the long term I can only and have only suggested nuclear. It is cheap, clean, and efficient. An added bonus is that the way nuclear reactors work is to superheat water, and then have it go through a turbine, after that add some electricity to the superheated H2O that the plant makes and you get hydrogen, an easily usable fuel for vehicles.

[The Corporal]

AAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

While I am the quintessential anti-hippie, I must put a soccer-ball sized, blood-spurting cavity into your ANWR argument. Projections put ANWR reserves at roughly the same size (if a little smaller) than the Prudhoe Bay fields - 15 billion barrels. The U.S. used about 8 billion barrels just last year. Not to mention the fact that it would take 35 years to get all 15 billion barrels out of the ground. Not to mention the fact that there is actually only a 10% chance that there's any oil there in the first place - the only reason they think there's any there is because the geological formations resemble the Prudhoe Bay fields, not because any wildcat wells have turned up oil (which to my knowledge hasn't happened yet). Put those factors together with the expense of 1) shipping the crude to Prudhoe Bay and further taxing the Pipeline or 2) building a whole new pipeline and the remote possibility of minor ecological damage (they are pretty damn careful these days), drilling in ANWR is just not worth it.

Nuclear - yes. Using it to electrolyze water...maybe. Maybe not. But thermal solar-powered water heaters are far better than gas or electric models. A nation-wide push to replace gas and electric water heaters with thermal solar models (which pay for themselves within only four years compared to gas, instantaneously compared to electric) would free up more natural gas for cracking into hydrogen, though.

You seem new, so I should tell you that I took an Energy Resources class last year. :D It was awesome. I also took a class where I learned how to operate a nuclear reactor, so if you ever have nuclear-related questions I'm the guy to ask. Don't know how to properly calibrate a pancake-probe Geiger Counter, the volume of the Code of Federal Regulations that concerns rad workers, or why the Soviet RBMK reactor sucks? Just PM me. ;)

[Villalba]

This just end

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i5TtajgUpSm7KY5jf-lCJGHBB-tAD902DGOG0

[Sir Hobo]

so whose up for a project to make cars run on water? i've seen a few prototypes online, time for a mass conversion to water power?

:globe: <-- look at all that fuel

[Villalba]

Nah, lets consume more fuel...is the only way. Who cares about those long haired hippie freaks. Lets cut all the corporate taxes, increase funding on fossil fuel usage. And at the same time, arrest all those who believe that the world should start to consume less energy...who do they think they are telling us workers, and corporations as to how too think and act.

xD xD xD.

[The Demon Lord]

Infrastructure in America sucks. We've ignored railway funding for decades (ever since the Interstates were introduced) and what should be a cheap and easy way to get around the country is instead just as expensive as flying and far more inconvenient. Of course, the airline and auto industries would bitch and moan about losing massive demand if we update Amtrak to European standards (imagine New York to Chicago in 3 hours on a TGV or MagLev-style line). Not only would this cut down on oil consumption (and therefore prices) but would reduce carbon and other emissions on a scale much greater than upping the minimum MPG to 30 or whatever idiotic solution the EPA has come up with.

Economic pressure will not be great enough for at least another 5-10 years for the country to seriously shift away from fossil fuels. Solar and wind power could, in that same time, begin to replace a hefty portion of the electricity generated by coal-fired plants with exponentially greater sustainability and marginally different initial costs.

Driving things from place to place is such a horrible solution. Green design ftw.

[The Corporal]

Agreed. Rail travel should be only slightly more expensive than boat travel. However, solar and wind are not the answer. If we were to attempt to supplant our coal- and gas-fired power plants with wind and solar, we could possibly be worse off. Sure, when they are operating, they are better for the environment (not for birds or large swaths of desert, but oh well), but the materials used in the construction of such power plants offset most of the gains from the nature of their operation. Nuclear (fission) is the best solution for the next 30-50 years while fusion power is being researched. I could go on and on about that, but I'm off to work. :)

[Melidan]

Infrastructure in America sucks. We've ignored railway funding for decades (ever since the Interstates were introduced) and what should be a cheap and easy way to get around the country.

Screw all of you! Trying to push us lowly truck drivers outta work :P

[Sir Hobo]

make trucks run on water, and life is good =)

[Zagato]

Aaah, I miss the good ol' days when fuel prices were never a worry. Think of the 1960's when cars were huge and brick-shaped. The days of 9 miles to the gallon V8's. Eh, eh?

[AzureShadow]

The only problem with Nuclear, Corporal, is that most of the country is a bunch of dumbasses and are afraid of the possible side effects. Chernobyl and similar disasters, which have a ridiculously low chance of actually occuring, are enough to scare people away from nuclear.

Oh, and lobbyists. They're kinda screwing us over too.

[The Corporal]

So true...so true. 30, 50, or 100 years from now when there are energy riots somebody will unf*ck their heads enough to see the truth. Someday... :)

[Melidan]

HA! So Oil hit $125 today... Dollar continues to fall against.. well, everything. But don't worry! The fed is printing more and more worthless paper money to finance deficit spending. Inflation soars and we slip closer to recession...

http://news.goldseek.com/InternationalForecaster/1210226820.php
***http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schoon/schoon040108.html

***No, I don't think Kennedy was killed for that.. just an interesting article exploring the role of the Fed, Fiat Currency and the Gold standard.

End of the year prediction;

Oil - $200+ a barrel
Gold - $1,500+ /oz
Silver - $35+ /oz

Bullish: SCREAMING BUY on Gold. Also mining, coal, aluminum, offshore oil drillers, oil tanker stocks..

Bearish: Financials.. SELL SELL SELL!

Things will get better eventually, maybe 1-1/2 years... Unless Obama gets in and decides to bankrupt and destroy this country's economy with a ridiculous universal health care plan.. Can't wait for that!

[Villalba]

Well, actually we have enough oil to last for another 50 years. And then there is the Orinoco Basin, in Venezuela. But the problem there is, that oil, is just too damn heavy, and difficult to drilled.

[The Corporal]

There's a lot more oil than that, but it really depends on your definition of "economically viable." Yeah, the Orinoco Basin is enormous, but it isn't economically feasible to get it out. There's a trillion barrels of oil and hundreds of trillions of cubic feet of natural gas in the U.S. (onshore and off) and in Canada, but a lot of the oil is locked up in oil shales and I do believe that gas number includes the methane hydrates at the bottom of the ocean. If the prices keep going up, those reserves will eventually be tapped.

One of many problems is the way OPEC does business - because many OPEC nations either hate us, are terrorist havens, or both, they can restrict our supply and make ridiculously good money off of what they do sell to us. If they pumped more, they would still make money but they wouldn't be able to slow down our economy. However, the answer to this problem is not to start drilling in ANWR. I've already stated the geological reasons (somewhere. short version: there's only a 10% chance that there is any oil there at all, not worth the major expense and minor potential for ecological harm) but politicians on both sides are ignoring that data - the Democrats because they are buying into the psycho-environmentalist propaganda that any drilling whatsoever will kill every living thing in northern Alaska, and the Republicans because any chance of oil is enough to exploit for political gain.

[Villalba]

Feh Corporal, the Democrats are the reason as to why oil prices are so expensive.

[The Corporal]

It's true, Democrats rarely are any use when making sound energy policy.

[Villalba]

The only Democrat that i saw, who had a good idea about big oil was Jimmy Carter, and he sucked at it. Oh well, maybe that is why we have such an increase in the prices. Breaking new records never seen before. Plumping the country into a fuel crisis, because even if we start to use solar power, we will still need to have oil at night. Wind power rarely works, and Nuclear power, sometimes can be dangerous. Hydroelectricity, might be the only solution, building Dams on rivers, problem is not every city in the US, is blessed with a powerfull river. Only solution might be the use of human energy, for power...believe it or not, humans have energy, it can be found on the weirdest place possible. Such as well, the toilet if you know what i mean.

[The Corporal]

I've always been a proponent of collecting methane released by cows and landfills, why not have a human methane collector? :P

[Villalba]

Thats a good idea. Great for the economy. It can be privatise in businesses. And the business will hire workers. Problem is, who will be so low, as to collect other people's well, various wastes.

[Villalba]

Things will get better eventually, maybe 1-1/2 years... Unless Obama gets in and decides to bankrupt and destroy this country's economy with a ridiculous universal health care plan.. Can't wait for that!

Like that is ever going to happen. Lets face it, even if McCain wins, he will still go the same economic plan of the Bush administration. It worked for a little while. But now is just screwed up. The Dems came into office, and as soon as they stepped into those walls, they screwed up, and made everything worst.

[Zagato]

I've always been a proponent of collecting methane released by cows and landfills, why not have a human methane collector? :P

http://youtube.com/watch?v=e1ILpB4VLtM

http://img246.imageshack.us/img246/1147/awesomemedid7.png

[SIWELCELA]

idk it may be longer than that corporal

[Melidan]

Oh yea.. Heard this GEM on Bloomberg this morning...

Dow Chemical Raising Prices Most Ever as Energy Costs Surge (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aglgDrmkQgWs&refer=home)

So basically the price of damn near everything will be going up 20% :hum_:

[Pimptastic]

if you get a dukes of hazard style dodge charger you get a huge 6 miles to the gallon, its one of the most expensive cars to run and only has 2 seats so double win small and expensive like diamonds

[Nedved I]

Night of the living thread!

[Immerael]

Actually miss Villlalba he would always make interesting threads. Even if everyone disagreed with him the thread was always fun :P